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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming, Human Psychology, and Net Impact for Animals</title>
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	<description>Having conversations that matter.</description>
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		<title>By: jenny</title>
		<link>http://www.worldchangecafe.com/2009/03/07/global-warming-human-psychology-and-net-impact-for-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-318</link>
		<dc:creator>jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldchangecafe.com/2009/03/07/global-warming-human-psychology-and-net-impact-for-animals/#comment-318</guid>
		<description>This is a well considered appraisal of the issues facing the &#039;go veg for climate&#039; argument.  Some of the less thorough thinkers, and more evangelical activists often mistakenly oversimplify the argument in the ways you say, and yes, it can undermine the effectiveness of the attempt to build a campaign.  I don&#039;t think it is done with the outright intention to misrepresent the truth, but rather a misguided understanding of the facts presented, driven by emotionally motivated efforts to convince others by whatever means appear to be at hand.  

There a few people seriously, articulately and consistently saying that animal agriculture farming is a leading cause of climate change, but if you examine their arguments closely you may find that they claim this not due solely to reduced emissions but because it effects a whole raft of issues and root causes connected to climate change. These include the ethical issue of suffering cased to all animals killed. Switching from beef to chicken, or kangaroo for that matter is not an acceptable outcome for many reasons, suffering being the chief amongst them.  

That is the spiritual/ethical argument, and it is that link - the karmic or whatever name you wish to give to the cause and effect principle that links our actions with the outcomes we then experience, individually and collectively, which is the basis of the statement that meat eating is the major cause of global warming.  

It is not an empirically quantifiable claim, and yes, many will dismiss it but that does not make it a lie.  Quite the opposite in fact, it is one of the core truths in all cultures understanding of their interactions in this life.

Nor does it, in reality, undermine the veracity of the general argument in favour of adopting a vegan lifestyle.  

&#039;As you sow, so shall you reap&#039;  i.e. inflict suffering on 60 billion living beings, and know that suffering of humans will be the natural outcome. Our incapacity to understand this has been limited by our misguided understanding that this applied only on an individual level.  However there is enough physically measurable evidence of this link out there for this now to be generally indisputable - 
*Food shortages and water shortages, linked to the redirection of resources to animal ag.  
*Decimation of the ocean&#039;s fish through not only fishing for human consumption, but pollution caused largely by cropping ( a large proportion for animal feed) and animal agriculture. 
* Not to mention that chickens and pigs have inadvertently been turned into the world&#039;s largest marine predators through the growth in commercial fishing to provide food for these most egregiously treated of species. 
* Deforestation driven by the need for animal grazing land, and crops to 
feed the animals.  
All of these are clearly attributable to the meat based dietary choices of the west.


As an aside I would like to point out that years of exaggeration and outright, intentional lies have done the strangle hold of the meat eating 
paradigm on conventional thinking no damage!  In fact that is what they are increasingly resorting to, much as the tobacco industry did, in a desperate attempt to shore up the haemorrhaging of public support for and faith in the industry. The meat based diet&#039;s actual benefits and the old ways of relating to other species and the environment are no longer universally accepted, but that doesn&#039;t stop them advertising information which has been patently misrepresented.

I do not mention this as an endorsement for misrepresenting the truth, simply as an example of the desperation of the meat industry.  

The reason I believe they are more likely to be wilfully misrepresenting the truth, as opposed to those vegetarians who misrepresent it through carelessness bourne of emotive enthusiasm is that the veggies rarely have anything to gain personally by winning the argument, but the meat lobby is trying to protect a multi-billion dollar industry, and can afford clever spin doctors.

We do need to be careful how we present the climate/veg arguments so that the end of suffering at the hands of humans, for all animals, is the outcome.  I truly believe that is the only outcome that will save us, ultimately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a well considered appraisal of the issues facing the &#8216;go veg for climate&#8217; argument.  Some of the less thorough thinkers, and more evangelical activists often mistakenly oversimplify the argument in the ways you say, and yes, it can undermine the effectiveness of the attempt to build a campaign.  I don&#8217;t think it is done with the outright intention to misrepresent the truth, but rather a misguided understanding of the facts presented, driven by emotionally motivated efforts to convince others by whatever means appear to be at hand.  </p>
<p>There a few people seriously, articulately and consistently saying that animal agriculture farming is a leading cause of climate change, but if you examine their arguments closely you may find that they claim this not due solely to reduced emissions but because it effects a whole raft of issues and root causes connected to climate change. These include the ethical issue of suffering cased to all animals killed. Switching from beef to chicken, or kangaroo for that matter is not an acceptable outcome for many reasons, suffering being the chief amongst them.  </p>
<p>That is the spiritual/ethical argument, and it is that link &#8211; the karmic or whatever name you wish to give to the cause and effect principle that links our actions with the outcomes we then experience, individually and collectively, which is the basis of the statement that meat eating is the major cause of global warming.  </p>
<p>It is not an empirically quantifiable claim, and yes, many will dismiss it but that does not make it a lie.  Quite the opposite in fact, it is one of the core truths in all cultures understanding of their interactions in this life.</p>
<p>Nor does it, in reality, undermine the veracity of the general argument in favour of adopting a vegan lifestyle.  </p>
<p>&#8216;As you sow, so shall you reap&#8217;  i.e. inflict suffering on 60 billion living beings, and know that suffering of humans will be the natural outcome. Our incapacity to understand this has been limited by our misguided understanding that this applied only on an individual level.  However there is enough physically measurable evidence of this link out there for this now to be generally indisputable &#8211;<br />
*Food shortages and water shortages, linked to the redirection of resources to animal ag.<br />
*Decimation of the ocean&#8217;s fish through not only fishing for human consumption, but pollution caused largely by cropping ( a large proportion for animal feed) and animal agriculture.<br />
* Not to mention that chickens and pigs have inadvertently been turned into the world&#8217;s largest marine predators through the growth in commercial fishing to provide food for these most egregiously treated of species.<br />
* Deforestation driven by the need for animal grazing land, and crops to<br />
feed the animals.<br />
All of these are clearly attributable to the meat based dietary choices of the west.</p>
<p>As an aside I would like to point out that years of exaggeration and outright, intentional lies have done the strangle hold of the meat eating<br />
paradigm on conventional thinking no damage!  In fact that is what they are increasingly resorting to, much as the tobacco industry did, in a desperate attempt to shore up the haemorrhaging of public support for and faith in the industry. The meat based diet&#8217;s actual benefits and the old ways of relating to other species and the environment are no longer universally accepted, but that doesn&#8217;t stop them advertising information which has been patently misrepresented.</p>
<p>I do not mention this as an endorsement for misrepresenting the truth, simply as an example of the desperation of the meat industry.  </p>
<p>The reason I believe they are more likely to be wilfully misrepresenting the truth, as opposed to those vegetarians who misrepresent it through carelessness bourne of emotive enthusiasm is that the veggies rarely have anything to gain personally by winning the argument, but the meat lobby is trying to protect a multi-billion dollar industry, and can afford clever spin doctors.</p>
<p>We do need to be careful how we present the climate/veg arguments so that the end of suffering at the hands of humans, for all animals, is the outcome.  I truly believe that is the only outcome that will save us, ultimately.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.worldchangecafe.com/2009/03/07/global-warming-human-psychology-and-net-impact-for-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldchangecafe.com/2009/03/07/global-warming-human-psychology-and-net-impact-for-animals/#comment-317</guid>
		<description>The immediate solution to climate change is already accessible to everyone. “There are many things that people can do to reduce their carbon emissions, but changing your light bulb and many of the things are much less effective than changing your diet, because if you eat further down on the food chain rather, than animals, which have produced many greenhouse gases, and used much energy in the process of growing that meat, you can actually make a bigger contribution in that way than just about anything. So, that, in terms of individual action, is perhaps the best thing you can do.” said Dr. James Hansen, top world climatogist  and Director of the US Goddard Spaceflight Center, NASA. Hard to believe? A United Nations report demonstrated that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars, trucks, SUVs, trains, planes and ships in the world combined. How much more? An impressive 40% more. A study done by two geophysicists at the University of Chicago said that just one person reducing his or her meat consumption by only 20% would be the equivalent of switching from a Camry to a Prius. Think about that! With simple changes to our everyday food choices, we can actually make as much a difference as the guy who just purchased a hybrid car - easily. The entire meat production cycle is very intensive in terms of carbon dioxide emissions, and the livestock industry is the number one producer of methane gas, the most potent of all the greenhouse gases.
What is good for your health, is also good for Mother Earth. The earth planet is our only home and if there is no planet there is future generations and humanity.
Please Go Vegan and Save the Planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The immediate solution to climate change is already accessible to everyone. “There are many things that people can do to reduce their carbon emissions, but changing your light bulb and many of the things are much less effective than changing your diet, because if you eat further down on the food chain rather, than animals, which have produced many greenhouse gases, and used much energy in the process of growing that meat, you can actually make a bigger contribution in that way than just about anything. So, that, in terms of individual action, is perhaps the best thing you can do.” said Dr. James Hansen, top world climatogist  and Director of the US Goddard Spaceflight Center, NASA. Hard to believe? A United Nations report demonstrated that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars, trucks, SUVs, trains, planes and ships in the world combined. How much more? An impressive 40% more. A study done by two geophysicists at the University of Chicago said that just one person reducing his or her meat consumption by only 20% would be the equivalent of switching from a Camry to a Prius. Think about that! With simple changes to our everyday food choices, we can actually make as much a difference as the guy who just purchased a hybrid car &#8211; easily. The entire meat production cycle is very intensive in terms of carbon dioxide emissions, and the livestock industry is the number one producer of methane gas, the most potent of all the greenhouse gases.<br />
What is good for your health, is also good for Mother Earth. The earth planet is our only home and if there is no planet there is future generations and humanity.<br />
Please Go Vegan and Save the Planet.</p>
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